Category Archives: Turbocharger

F21 on E85

There’s not been much activity in the turbocharger selection area recently, but that has changed with the receipt of this data showing a F21 equipped B5 S4 operating with E85 fuel and measured on a Dynapack dynamometer.

It’s good to see a F21 car operating the turbocharger at a boost level consistent with what I believe they are capable of, steady 23-24 psi out to redline.

Details about the car: 2001 Audi B5 S4 on Stock Engine, FrankenTurbo F21 turbochargers, 72 lb injectors, 85mm MAF and intake, 2.5″ catless downpipes, Silly Rabbit Motorsport Intercoolers, tuned by Epic Tuning Group on AU Tuning’s Dyno.

Chart of Frankenturbo F21 using E85 fuel
FrankenTurbo F21 on E85 (Dynapack Dyno)

And some results of the F21’s on 91 octane fuel.

FrankenTurbo F21 Turbocharger on 91 octane fuelIn terms of selection criteria these results show that F21’s are going to be able to push the edge of my comfort zone with the stock motor.  With 93 octane instead of 91 I’d expect the horsepower and torque to nudge up another 15-20.

The contenders still are:

  • Borg-Warner K04
  • FrankenTurbo F21
  • Project B5 RS6-X

 

Contender Dyno Comparison

The current contenders consist of the Project B5 RS6-X, FrankenTurbo F21 or Project B5 RS4-X, and Borg-Warner K04.  These three options span the range near the stock motor limit with the K04 filling the lower end, F21/RS4-X the middle, and RS6-X the upper end of Horsepower potential.  The RS6-X could be considered crossing over into the “upgraded rods needed” region if tuned accordingly, but for the purposes of my intended use I would have them operating below that threshold.

To better assess the tradeoffs that each makes I collected a half dozen dyno charts for Borg-Warner RS6 turbo’s and determined the median value for the set.

A few shortcomings to keep in mind; the six RS6 dyno’s are for a turbo design that is different from the RS6-X, the RS6-X uses a different compressor wheel from the Borg-Warner design.  I do not have a dyno chart for the RS6-X so I am using the BW RS6 as a substitute.  Another shortcoming is that the F21 dyno chart is for a setup that falls short of what the F21 is capable of past 5000 rpm – a better optimized F21 car would likely have greater torque output past 4000 rpm than what is shown below.  Lastly, more data to compare is always better and in this instance there is only one K04 car and one F21 car, though they were both tuned by EPL so hopefully they are somewhat illustrative of what a car equivalently equipped and tuned by EPL would put down on a dyno.

I am only interested in comparing torque at this point, I expect the top end horsepower results to follow along with the increasing dimensions of each turbo – K04 followed by F21/RS4-X, and then RS6-X, subject to pressure drop variations in supporting components such as downpipes, exhaust, and intercoolers

The turbochargers compared:

RS6 versus EPL K04 versus EPL F21Comments: There are definite trade-offs arising from the turbocharger selected from these three choices.

 

F21 vs K04

Dyno charts for F21 equipped cars are hard to come by but I did find one tuned by EPL that has some usefulness in comparing the F21 to K04’s.  The comparison is limited in the upper region due to the F21 car using K04 wastegates, but based upon the larger compressor size of the F21 and capacity to hold at least 25 psi out to red line I would expect a proper F21 setup to perform even better than the example below toward the top end – ie past 5000 rpm.

What is of most interest to me in this particular comparison case is the lower rpm region, below 4000 rpm.  I’ve seen boost logs of F21’s and noted that boost comes on more slowly than with the FT F4H-BT which was very similar to the K04, not surprising given the closer sizing of the compressor wheels in the F4H and K04.  I am a bit surprised at the torque differences shown by this F21 car and the K04 car.  I’ve seen other K04 dyno logs from EPL tuned cars as well as 034 tuned k04 cars and the torque curve is typical.  With only one F21 log to compare it’s good to be cautious in taking these results as representative, but assuming this is a fair comparison there is a decent shortfall in torque from the F21 as compared to the K04 in the sub-4000 rpm range.

This particular rpm region is significant when the car is driven in what I consider a conventional manner, that is one where high rpms aren’t being held often and downshifting in order to accelerate is not desired.  The torque advantage of the K04 will translate into a perception of greater response, though the F21 is no slouch, still there is around a 50 ft-lb difference at 2500 rpm which grows to a 75 ft-lb difference through approximately 3500 rpm.

FrankenTurbo F21 vs Borg-Warner K04
Dyno chart of EPL tuned FrankenTurbo F21 vs Borg-Warner K04

These results while being quite interesting haven’t swayed me to eliminate one turbo or the other – they do highlight how much turbocharger selection can affect the end driving experience and the importance of establishing a priority of what criteria are to be met.

  • Borg-Warner K03
  • Borg-Warner K04
  • Project B5: RS4-X
  • FrankenTurbo F4H-BT
  • FrankenTurbo F21
  • Borg-Warner RS6-K04
  • Project B5: RS6-X
  • JHM RS6-R
  • LOBA Motorsport LO530P
  • Silly Rabbit Motorsport RS6 K24
  • TiAL Sport s605.2
  • Garrett GT28RS
  • TiAL Sport R770
  • Single Turbo Kit

Next: Turbocharger Selection Big Picture